Metal Gear Series Discussion

Well, the GAME that is in four is adequate but I'd hardly say it's the best.

Also...no debate ever has someone 100% right, neither of us is 100% right. That is a stupid statement.

That said, of COURSE MGS4 is stylized, but that doesn't give it a get out of jail free card in terms of quality. That's like me saying a movie is good and when you ask me to defend it I respond by saying "well, you just don't get it"

I'd say the game in 4 ranges from amazing (Chapter 4) to god fucking awful (the first half of Chapter 5). Really just a roller coaster in quality.

Krubixcube wrote:Well, the GAME that is in four is adequate but I'd hardly say it's the best.

Also...no debate ever has someone 100% right, neither of us is 100% right. That is a stupid statement.

That said, of COURSE MGS4 is stylized, but that doesn't give it a get out of jail free card in terms of quality. That's like me saying a movie is good and when you ask me to defend it I respond by saying "well, you just don't get it"

Normally I give a little (or a lot) in our discussions but I'm still not budging on that one. If I remember correctly I compared it to your "well you just don't get it 2001 Space Odyssey" obsession... but you didn't see the parallels.

Anyways, the game that's in MGS4 is significantly better than MGS3 (quasi-minigame levels aside). From a pure gameplay point I don't know that I've played a more solid and polished game... even Demon's Souls. But the gameplay/story balance in MGS3 and more interesting MGS3 story make them close to equal in my mind.

I didnt say people just dint get 2001 in fact i argued against that. I said it's a difficult sliw movie but then defended it without saying "it's just good."

Saying it's polished is an empty statement. Why is it polished? How is it polished?

Chapter 3 story, cutscenes, gameplay...please tell me how it was polished.

Address the horribly repetitive cutscenes (about 5 minutes of people pointing guns at ocelot), the same trailing gameplay that was slammed in assassin's creed, the tons of time devoted to explaining the same concepts over and over again. Explain how that equals polish without just saying it's a "stylistic choice"

Sorry for the triple post cant edit posts from ipod but I would TOTALLY respect if you just said "it's flawed but I love it anyway."

Like my love of FFVIII. I would not defend the plot holes in it but I still love it anyway. Or the controls of silent hill...flawed but add to the whole thing

Chapters 1,2, and 4 of MGS4 = best game of the generation.

Everything else is incredibly frustrating to me. Including a lot the cutscenes, which go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on just explaining the story. It's like listening to the Metal Gear Encyclopedia audiobook

I don't know about Neph, but I think MGS4 is the most technically sound MGS game of the series. I think gameplay-wise its flawless. I know you have to take that with a grain of salt, because its the newest game in the franchise... but the shooting, sneaking, and combat in general feel so damn good. I am currently playing through it again and the controls are extremely responsive. It's kind of amazing how good they still feel considering it came out in 2008. And if a five-year-old game still looks and plays fantastic, it's doing something right.

As for the cutscenes... every Metal Gear game is bloated and up its own ass with its story. I think 4 seems so ridiculous at times, because Kojima had a whole dual-layered Blu-ray disc to play with so he really didn't have to cut anything out. I'm sure we would have 90 minute cutscenes in MGS1 if he was able to pull it off. Even MGS 3 has some parts that drag... like pretty much every part with Snake and Eva where he just stands there starring at her like he's fucking Forrest Gump. Anyway, I know it doesn't excuse the narrative faults MGS4 has. I think some of aspects of the story are outrageous, but a lot of it I just shrug and say 'Well, it's Metal Gear.'

Just for the record. I think it's really hard to rank Metal Gear games within the series. I don't think its fair to rank them on gameplay, because video games evolved so much over the time of each game's release. I also think each game does something better than any of the other games. All technical and narrative aspects aside, I look at it on a pure enjoyment factor. So for the sake of my personal MGS rankings...

3>4>1>2.

I agree, gameplay-wise MGS4 is the best of the series. It feels so flawless, the controls are so perfect, so many ways to approach combat, all of the gun upgrades. You've always been able to choose sneaking or straight up gun play, but this was the only game out of all of them where that felt like it mattered.

Also, I liked Matt's Forrest Gump comment.

One thing I don't like, no one talks about Peace Walker. That's a great game people.

3 did have a cool health regeneration system, but going to the menus to get food and change camo became a chore. 4 took those ideas and just made it easier by staying stationary while laying down and your suit automatically transforming to the surroundings.

You didn't have to be a super soldier in 4, in fact I played 4 the same way I played 3. Tranquilizer darts to the hard and move on. Rarely did I whip out the guns.

I definitely preferred 4's controls just because I hated how you could only walk or crawl, no crouch walk that 4 had. I still say 3 had better gameplay though, just had more interesting ideas that it did with it than 4.

Sure you could be a super soldier in 4, but they also gave you a far better stealth system than 3. I actually had the exact opposite approach in the earlier games. I would get frustrated with the dated controls and just start murdering everyone. But then again... I end up just murdering everyone in every Metal Gear game. I get bored with sneaking after a while. haha

Gameplay-wise though, I agree. 3 is better. I think the limited technology of the time period made for a better action game. I think that had more to do with it than the controls.

It definitely had more to do with the game. Even though HD's the better port, playing the game on 3DS with 4's controls felt like a huge step up and hope they'll eventually put those on an HD system.

I don't know when it happened but Peacewalker is available for the Vita now. Kinda wish it could be a freebie since I already bought the HD collection and it was missing that game (for space reasons I'm sure).

Hopefully someday they release Peace Walker as an HD download or something. Then I might actually do "transfarring" or cross-play.

Krubixcube wrote:Chapter 3 story, cutscenes, gameplay...please tell me how it was polished.

Address the horribly repetitive cutscenes (about 5 minutes of people pointing guns at ocelot), the same trailing gameplay that was slammed in assassin's creed, the tons of time devoted to explaining the same concepts over and over again. Explain how that equals polish without just saying it's a "stylistic choice"

Sorry, I meant the gameplay was extremely polished not the game itself. The game itself is very stylized. I love Kojima's style but I can appreciate that it's not for everyone. (cough cough that's why you have the skip button cough cough)

By polished gameplay I'm pretty much just echoing TheMatt. Very deep and complex controls that work extremely well and are perfectly polished. Responsive weapons and realistic physics. Outstanding stealth and AI (playing Crysis 3 right now and the stealth is a fucking joke). Beautiful interactive environments with multiple paths. The fact that the easy difficulty and the hard difficulty feel like entirely different games. Etc etc. It's the same things I say about Demon's Souls gameplay but honestly I haven't play more polished gameplay than MGS4. My only criticism was the clown car spawns.

That still just said "Kojima uses style" but you still haven't told me that style and how it adds to the story.

I do enjoy that you didn't address any of my actual specific points about Chapter 3 though. Nice evasion =p

The style is obvious. Overly dramatic scenes and characters (often overly silly) placed against the backdrop of long winded political speeches. It's unique and very blunt. I enjoy what essentially amounts to a history lesson because of how interest the topics are. It's like watching a TED talk. And I enjoy the hamfisted Japanese style of story telling whether it be MGS or the old FF or DragonBall.

I forget which Chapter is 3. If it's that god damn bicycle race then no that chapter sucks and gives me nightmares. Earlier when I was talking about gameplay I made a point to exclude all the quasi mini game stuff.

Yeah, the one that ended in the bike chase. How about the bit before it. What do you say about that bit. Where you're following the dude through the streets?

Can't we get down to what's really important in MGS4; Sunny's egg cooking.

What's everyone's favorite set of Metal Gear baddies? I'm gonna go with Metal Gear Solid. I liked that cast of characters.

BretBaber wrote:What's everyone's favorite set of Metal Gear baddies? I'm gonna go with Metal Gear Solid. I liked that cast of characters.

3 definitely had the best. The End and The Boss, 'nuff said.
The final battle against Liquid in MGS4 was fucking awesome too. That was like an emotional roller coaster the way it flashed back through the whole series.

I'm also going with 3 for similar reasons. MGS did have Sniper Wolf, Grey Fox and Psycho Mantis but I don't have fondness for anyone else.

Also, I don't mean boss fights, just the characters in general. I like 3's a lot, but besides The Boss and The End I didn't really like any of them. Also, I was very annoyed that they'd all scream their name when they'd die and blow up.

As characters I liked the original MGS the most. They all had good stories, and even though you just murdered them, they'd always tell you what event made them into bad people. Bitch I don't care that you're a Kurd, you shot Meryl!

So am I the only one who enjoyed chapter 3 whatsoever? No, it wasn't brilliant gameplay but I still think it was kind of cool and not overly difficult. Certainly not bad enough to ruin the game.