Re: Now Playing

by Motinator Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:37 am

Sometimes I wonder if we complain about padding too much. I mean people can't always make perfect games. The Last of Us sounds like it turned out pretty close to perfect, but that came from many games of experience and probably a little luck in that they got all of their ideas in and it worked.

by pspiddy Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:22 am

I purchased Scribblenauts Remix on android for $1. I'm glad I can finally play it without borrowing the wife's ds, but disappointed it has micro transactions. Oh well.

@Mot- Searching for the perfect game each time out is stupid. I do find myself putting unreasonable standards on some games though, so I'm not clean in that aspect. Sometimes I think people are so passionate about gaming that they forget it's supposed to be fun.

by Krubixcube Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:27 am

I think I'm less complaining about padding, as I think Developers should have the balls to make a really focused 6 hour game instead of a 12 hour one. That said, I know that on paper that's hard because investors/gamers feel they're getting cheated but I think if you change the pricing to reflect it (to say...$30/40 at launch) then I think people would be all for that.

Or maybe that's just me, maybe I'd just be all for it and you'd be all like "what's this short game bullshit?". At least I'd be happy, right?

by TripOpt55 Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:43 am

I'd like to chime in and say I hate the term dudebro altogether. It's often misused and absolutely overused. I still think ludonarrative dissonance is worse because for one people think they are smart by just using the word and it's complained about more often than bad gameplay systems and components these days which is kind of a shame. Well the latter may not technically be true, but it sure feels like I hear complaints about it more. I guess it is good when it brings having more varied gameplay systems and genres into the equation, but often it just seems the complaints are completely misguided (though this is a greater internet complaint, not aimed at anyone here).

by pspiddy Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:38 am

Between Trip and T-wolf, I'm glad fucking greenie is around. He knows what's going down. Can separate both yalls dudebro shit. Fucking assclowns. Greenie, please smack them stupid bitches.

by Krubixcube Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:40 am

What'd I do? Besides being awesome. And smart. And funny. And good looking. And not up my own ass at all.

by ajapam Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:19 pm

I can actually agree on padding in Bioshock Infinite. It feels like a lot of these gunfights are there just to drag things out and to make it more game-y. I know that lots of games I love do that, like The Last of Us or Half-Life 2. But in TLOU the combat really gels with the tone and Half-Life 2 still has god-like pacing for the most part, so I can't really complain about those. I think it's hard to find a game that really gets that right.

Though when I'm finished the game, I won't complain about padding nearly as much as I'll complain about first-person cutscenes.

by Rainjar Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:08 pm

Kayshire Cat wrote:It doesn't clash at all.

Spoiler:

Also I don't get the connection between having a lot of shooting and it being dudebro at all.

You don't understand how outgunning an entire army via things you've never used and they've lived around for years for hours on end isn't just a TINY bit clashing with the "wow so emotional" so story they're trying to tell?

The connection is the way it's done. Your fucking kill counter on that game is Cawadoody tier for no real reason.

TripOpt55 wrote:I'd like to chime in and say I hate the term dudebro altogether. It's often misused and absolutely overused. I still think ludonarrative dissonance is worse because for one people think they are smart by just using the word and it's complained about more often than bad gameplay systems and components these days which is kind of a shame. Well the latter may not technically be true, but it sure feels like I hear complaints about it more. I guess it is good when it brings having more varied gameplay systems and genres into the equation, but often it just seems the complaints are completely misguided (though this is a greater internet complaint, not aimed at anyone here).

That's because ludonarrative disonnance (I'm so smartsy, huehuehue) is a big problem with games trying to become more and more mature. The games try to tell a story and act like they can stand up with film and other forms of media yet the greatest advantage and the entire point of the gaming medium ignores the story side completely. Max Payne 3 is still up there as the main example of that bullshit, fuck that game. Spec Ops and TLOU are good examples of how to avoid LUDONARRATIVE DISONNANCE SMARTSY WORD FOR SMARTIES ONLY.

ajapam wrote:I can actually agree on padding in Bioshock Infinite. It feels like a lot of these gunfights are there just to drag things out and to make it more game-y. I know that lots of games I love do that, like The Last of Us or Half-Life 2. But in TLOU the combat really gels with the tone and Half-Life 2 still has god-like pacing for the most part, so I can't really complain about those. I think it's hard to find a game that really gets that right.

Though when I'm finished the game, I won't complain about padding nearly as much as I'll complain about first-person cutscenes.

So much about Infinite felt padded, even when it turned out to be relevant to the overall story it was always handled so poorly it felt like nothing more than a fetch quest. The mindless gunfights probably didn't help.

Another thing I fucking despised about Infinite was the button prompts. 'PRESS X TO DO THIS' 'PRESS CIRCLE TO DO THIS' all the fucking time.

by TripOpt55 Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:13 pm

Rainjar wrote:That's because ludonarrative disonnance (I'm so smartsy, huehuehue) is a big problem with games trying to become more and more mature. The games try to tell a story and act like they can stand up with film and other forms of media yet the greatest advantage and the entire point of the gaming medium ignores the story side completely. Max Payne 3 is still up there as the main example of that bullshit, fuck that game. Spec Ops and TLOU are good examples of how to avoid LUDONARRATIVE DISONNANCE SMARTSY WORD FOR SMARTIES ONLY.

I wasn't aiming that comment at you so don't take it personally and the first bit was me mostly joking obviously (though if you'd see certain people using it the way they were without understanding what they are talking about at all, you'd think the same thing). No need to be an ass about it. I think the bigger issue in games right now is how automated gameplay systems have become and games getting away from being what games are supposed to be (fun with actual in-depth gameplay) often in favor of storytelling. People's solutions for solving the dissonance issues are usually poor. Maybe yours aren't. As I said, I like the idea of someone suggesting some different forms of gameplay to replace combat if that is causing the issue, but when I look around the web at people bitching their solutions are rarely elegant and mostly just bitching. I absolutely think there are bigger problems in games though especially after this gen.

Edit: Also probably a side effect of you not being around me as much as others here, but kind of like when I pick on Journey and Community, I'm mostly overdoing it to be a dick. Journey isn't the worst game ever, Community is a good show, and ludonarrative disonnance is a problem. I just don't think its as big a deal as most. I just figured my comments being purposely overblown was obvious to everyone here at this point.

by Miraculous Kaydybug Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:19 pm

Rainjar wrote:

You don't understand how outgunning an entire army via things you've never used and they've lived around for years for hours on end isn't just a TINY bit clashing with the "wow so emotional" so story they're trying to tell?

Booker is a soldier, and mercenary how are guns things he's never used?

by pspiddy Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:23 pm

In case anyone is curious, googling ludonawhatever disosomecastlevanianame does not lead to porn and is actually as boring and made up as it sounds.

I agree with Rain and Trip on the button prompts and automated gameplay things respectively. And the points being made here make me feel shitty for hating on boss battles that throw you into the mix and make you figure out how to succeed on the fly.

The storytelling thing is tricky. MGS4 is a great example of however great a game may be, it can lose my interest if I'm a spectator and not involved. Call me old-school, I like a game that encourages my imagination and doesn't hold my hand through some game maker's Hollywood-wannabe story. I'm A-OK with the prince being captured by his evil uncle and me stepping into the shoes of the would-be princess to save him.

@T-wolf: You know you're my favorite Wink

by Rainjar Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:32 pm

TripOpt55 wrote:
Rainjar wrote:That's because ludonarrative disonnance (I'm so smartsy, huehuehue) is a big problem with games trying to become more and more mature. The games try to tell a story and act like they can stand up with film and other forms of media yet the greatest advantage and the entire point of the gaming medium ignores the story side completely. Max Payne 3 is still up there as the main example of that bullshit, fuck that game. Spec Ops and TLOU are good examples of how to avoid LUDONARRATIVE DISONNANCE SMARTSY WORD FOR SMARTIES ONLY.

I wasn't aiming that comment at you so don't take it personally and the first bit was me mostly joking obviously (though if you'd see certain people using it the way they were without understanding what they are talking about at all, you'd think the same thing). No need to be an ass about it. I think the bigger issue in games right now is how automated gameplay systems have become and games getting away from being what games are supposed to be (fun with actual in-depth gameplay) often in favor of storytelling. People's solutions for solving the dissonance issues are usually poor. Maybe yours aren't. As I said, I like the idea of someone suggesting some different forms of gameplay to replace combat if that is causing the issue, but when I look around the web at people bitching their solutions are rarely elegant and mostly just bitching. I absolutely think there are bigger problems in games though especially after this gen.

Edit: Also probably a side effect of you not being around me as much as others here, but kind of like when I pick on Journey and Community, I'm mostly overdoing it to be a dick. Journey isn't the worst game ever, Community is a good show, and ludonarrative disonnance is a problem. I just don't think its as big a deal as most. I just figured my comments being purposely overblown was obvious to everyone here at this point.

Oh, no I didn't. I actually agree, it's a pseudo-intellectual sounding term, but damn I love it anyway. I don't think favouring storytelling is a bad thing as such, it's just video games are still doing it pretty poorly for the most part. Obviously straight up fun games without having a focus on story need to be around too. Having less games with just a massive focus on combat would be nice but it certainly isn't easy, especially seeing as we don't even have a concrete definition of what people consider a game to be anyway. Having games with a heavy narrative focus that also has combat isn't really a bad as long as the narrative suits it (Again, Last of Us and Spec Ops being perfect examples) I just don't feel like Bioshocks suited it, at all.

Kayshire Cat wrote:
Rainjar wrote:

You don't understand how outgunning an entire army via things you've never used and they've lived around for years for hours on end isn't just a TINY bit clashing with the "wow so emotional" so story they're trying to tell?

Booker is a soldier, and mercenary how are guns things he's never used?

He was? I forgot about that. Even so, I'll apply it to the plasmids instead, which borderline nobody uses apart from a select few despite the fact they hand them out like cotton candy on the sides of the street. Or was there some reason for that too?

by Krubixcube Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:59 pm

Yeah, he was a soldier at wounded knee AND

Spoiler:

That said, I wont disagree with you on would the emotional part of the story be better with more story focused gameplay elements. I've always said an ideal game (one of many) for me would be a mix of Deus Ex and Bioshock mix.

by Miraculous Kaydybug Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:07 pm

Rainjar wrote:
He was? I forgot about that. Even so, I'll apply it to the plasmids instead, which borderline nobody uses apart from a select few despite the fact they hand them out like cotton candy on the sides of the street. Or was there some reason for that too?

DONT CLICK UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY HAVE BEATEN THE GAME MAJOR SPOILER:

I honestly did think the gameplay fit the narrative perfectly, but i wont disagree that adding a few more story bits wouldnt hurt.

by TripOpt55 Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:35 am

Oh wow. Sorry about that Rainjar. I totally read your first comment the wrong way. I haven't played Infinite, so I can't speak to that. I think something like Uncharted or the Tomb Raider reboot (which get these complaints a lot too) could actually benefit from a gameplay perspective from trying to solve the dissonance issues. Like I said I don't see people tackling these issues in the right way when they talk about them though.

Uncharted is tricky. It has always been a shooter first. But more of a platforming puzzle focus or more exploration would actually mesh better with the adventure story (UC3's Yemen actual does this fairly well at times). But the game's current platforming and puzzle element isn't very good, so it probably wouldn't make for a more fun game. But if they revamped those elements it might. Though more options to completely avoid combat scenarios like in The Last of Us wouldn't hurt. I'm honestly not as bothered as most by the clashes here because the game's story isn't meant to be taken too seriously.

The Tomb Raider reboot... I mean the solution is simple. It should be a platformer/puzzle game first. And if the reboot was, the whole clash between her crying over her first kill before running off to kill one thousand dudes wouldn't be an issue because kills would be rare like say the first game. And encounters would have more weight. Again while I more often take the game for task for the way it handled gameplay, fixing the gameplay the way I have asked would actually fix a lot of the issues with the narrative.

Now that might just sound like I'm saying games should have more platforming because I like it (which is a little true... haha), but I saw Twolf mentioning Infinite say taking influences from Deus Ex or Mass Effect. There are a lot of ways to fix these issues.

And a lot of this comes back to devs going the easy route and just making games shooters. And I can look the other way a bit again if it ends up making a more fun experience. But it feels like a lot of times it is because it is what mainstream gamers know these days and it won't trip anyone up. A lot of devs are afraid to challenge gamers these days. And a lot of these games would be better experiences if they weren't.

by Rainjar Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:47 am

Haha, s'cool dude.

Uncharted's dissonance issue isn't a problem I don't think. The game is a bombastic Hollywood tier shooter, it's not trying to tell a fantastic story with a brilliant cast of characters (The Uncharted cast are lovable but they're walking cliches). The only time I got annoyed with Uncharted's dissonance was in U2 after the train incident, but U3s desert version was x10 more offensive in terms of "Oh for fuck sake, seriously?!" that U2s doesn't really bother me much more. But again, it's a silly Hollywood tier action flick, and a damn good one at that. What was really surprising about TLOU was it was written by the same guy who wrote U2.

@BioshockInfinite Discussion - Yeah, my bad - I completely forgot about the whole wounded knee thing. I just find it incredibly jarring (And not in the clever way) when the game is trying to have these neato story moments and then 5 seconds later you're back to murder of crows and putting fire bullets into another squad of enemies faces. I didn't think it's gameplay was particularly good for multiple reasons (I'll list 'em later if the discussion is still going on) I don't feel like the way it was telling its story was particularly good either, like I said earlier they set everything up as a fetch quest that led to another fetch quest, that would led to ANOTHER fetch quest before you even managed to succeed at the first fetch quest. I don't think B:I is a terrible game, just horrifically overrated.

@The Actual Topic of the Thread - Been playing Metal Gear Rising: Revengence, on the last stage or so. I'm a little disappointed by just how easy it is, as well as how poorly designed it is in places along with how insanely simplistic the combat is. There's not really been many "OHMAN, SHIT'S GETTING CRAZY" moments that I'd play a game like that for. The soundtrack though is VERY good apart from one or two awful tracks. Mistral theme is best theme.

Also been playing Gunpoint which came out recently on Steam, very neat little title that I need to put some more time into really but seeing as I just bought Resonance of Fate and Deadly Premonition: Director's Cut I don't see it happening any time soon. Need to fit in a couple of matches of DOTA in there somewhere too.

by avidacridjam Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:19 pm

Bought the Ratchet & Clank collection from PSN this morning and now I'm spending the day so far playing through the first game. The latter games were more refined but this is still a lot of fun.

by avidacridjam Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:52 pm

If there's one thing I don't miss, its these hoverboard races. Holy fuck, what were they thinking?

by TripOpt55 Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:36 pm

avidacridjam wrote:If there's one thing I don't miss, its these hoverboard races. Holy fuck, what were they thinking?

These were fucking terrible.

by avidacridjam Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:01 pm

I've given this race I-don't-know-how-many tries. I don't know what pissed me off more: the annoying layout of the explosive boxes on the track or the fact that the other racers will hit those boxes and not take any damage or lose momentum. I can't play this fucking game anymore for some bullshit area that I beat (and hated) years ago.

Going Commando & Up Your Arsenal are better anyway.

Shit. I was punching the fucking floor in anger. I really wanted to throw that controller. Wow.

by pspiddy Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:14 pm

avidacridjam wrote:I've given this race I-don't-know-how-many tries. I don't know what pissed me off more: the annoying layout of the explosive boxes on the track or the fact that the other races will hit those boxes and not take any damage or lose momentum. I can't play this fucking game anymore for some bullshit area that I beat (and hated) years ago.

Going Commando & Up Your Arsenal are better anyway.

Shit. I was punching the fucking floor in anger. I really wanted to throw that controller. Wow.

Lol. This actually makes me want to boot the game up and try it out tonight Razz

by Rainjar Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:54 am

I spent £30 on Deadly Premonition: Director's Cut. It is, without a doubt, one of the worst games I have ever played in my life and easily up for worst retail game of this generation. The trees and textures look like something from the PS2 era, the sound design is awful in every possible way, the gameplay is shit and piss easy, the framerate drops almost every fucking chance it gets, the level design and the markers to where you have to go are terribly done.

Yet... It's still really fun. There's something really charming about it, and the writing is genuinely funny. It's so charming to the point I don't actually regret buying it at almost full price.

by avidacridjam Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:31 am

So, I calmed down, took a break, started the game up and beat the hoverboard race on my 3rd try. All I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

by volvocrusher Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:28 pm

pspiddy wrote:Between Trip and T-wolf, I'm glad fucking greenie is around. He knows what's going down. Can separate both yalls dudebro shit. Fucking assclowns. Greenie, please smack them stupid bitches.

Actually I'm with Trip on dudebros. People use it to act like a game's audience is a flaw of the game itself to the point where there I've seen people who don't like Gears of War because its a dudebro game. Not to mention 90% of people who use dudebros a lot are weeaboos and we all know they'll defend much worse games than Gears of War and Madden.

by pspiddy Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:51 pm

I've been interested in trying Deadly Premonition for a while. It never hit my jump price of < $10 when I owned a 360.

Ratchet and Clank sure brings back a lot of nostalgia. Not for that game in particular -I was fresh out of college so I gamed on GBA and a laptop when I had the chance-but for that whole era of gaming. The controls and camera are, of course, wonky but the game is just fun. I can't wait to experience this hoverboard crap you guys are talking about!

This also has me excited about finally playing the Jak series. If the damn games ever gets here. Amazon still says within the next couple of weeks :/

by SanAndreasX Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:04 pm

Been picking through The Last of Us, and I'm getting ready to start Project X Zone tonight.

by Krubixcube Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:32 pm

I'm with pspiddy, Deadly Premonition for me is a <$10 game for me considering what I've seen of it so far.

And greenman, I think you actually articulated something really well something that had been bugging me about the whole shebang. You're right, dudebro is a term that damns a game based on its perceived, but not its actual audience and stigmatizes people who like those games. Not to mention it kind of marginalizes how well designed those games are. They might not step into your idea of a well-designed game, but they are well made.

by Miraculous Kaydybug Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:22 pm

It's a blanket term used to refer to mainstream Western games that stigmatizes the people who play them in the same way weeaboo does for people who play more niche Japanese titles. Honestly I wish people would stop bringing words like that into actual discussions. Whether a game is "weeb" or "dudebro" has little to do with it's actual quality. Sure there are youre stereotypical weebs and dudebros out there but i don't see ANY of them here.

by pspiddy Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:57 pm

Since I can't say the designers of the final encounter with Shao Khan in MK deserve a literal kick in the nuts (the constitution has been espicially pissed on in social media), let me say that I hope they don't have job security and/or are fired.

Going through that again is such a fucking joke. Fight with skill and you get demolished. Jump over him, press forward and (X) at the same time. Repeat. Double flawless. Shit design by obviously shithead people. Fuck them.

by SanAndreasX Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:05 am

That Shao Kahn battle is a shit-ton of fuck, as the AVGN says. You just have to find the best way of cheaping him to death.

In regards to the other thread of conversation, I enjoyed The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite, Ni no Kuni, and I expect to enjoy Tales of Xillia. Would that make me a dudeaboo or a weeabro?

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