The Legend of Zelda Series Discussion

Okay. Figured we'd try and discuss which Zelda is best or just your favorite though sometimes those are different I think. Try and explain why as much as you can and where it bests other Zelda games. If you are going to say something silly like, "Okami is the best Zelda game"... well don't say that.

I haven't played many (only beat the very first one and the two DS games). So I really have no right to weigh my opinion. I've also played Ocarina (got to the water temple and just stopped) and beat a couple dungeons in A Link to the Past. I had the most fun playing Phantom Hourglass.

Wind Waker. Loved its world more than any other Zelda, the 3D ones I felt were more fun to explore, but they all had much more linear pathways than WW did. There it was just pointing which way to go and sailing until you found something interesting. Also just had a certain charm to it most other Zeldas have, but WW more than any other.

I'm torn between Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. The latter has much cooler themes, a better storyline, and a more original concept, but it's also a lot more frustrating at times. Both have aged better than the old 2D Zeldas and neither one has a part that was as annoying as Wind Waker's endless fetch quest or that temple in Phantom Hourglass.

This is one of those franchises to me where the perfect entry doesn't exist (some might disagree I realize). Like if you could grab elements from each and combine them, you'd have this perfect Zelda game, but often they shine in one area, but aren't as good as others in other areas.

My favorite is Twilight Princess mostly because I think it has the hands-down best dungeons and that is what I love most about Zelda. These huge intricate dungeons brilliantly designed. And nine of them helps. It's that stretch from Arbiter's Grounds to City in the Sky that really blows me away. I'd say those two are the best Zelda dungeons, but the two in between are really cool too. But I love the items and the bosses. It controls really well. I think its overworld is actually fine even though people often complain about it. I think it's about on par with other 3D Zelda titles. Hey and it has the Cave of Ordeals. Midna is also an amazing sidekick character. I get some of the complaints about the slow beginning, but it doesn't do enough to mar the experience for me.

I generally prefer the 3D ones. It's not as innovative as OoT. That is probably the best argument against it that OoT did so much of it first, I'd stand by TP being better designed though. It doesn't look as good as Windwaker (I prefer some of TP's character designs though), but ultimately that isn't as important to me as the gameplay where TP seems so far ahead of WW. I have big issues with both Skyward Sword and Majora's Mask, so those aren't really in the running for me. Overall TP is the best package for me.

The dungeons were great in TP, my issue with it is just the stuff outside there. It's all the other stuff that made the game underwhelming. In most of my favorite Zeldas, getting to the next area was about exploring and not only gave a nice break from dungeons, but it was as much fun as the dungeon itself. TP just felt like it was sticking in whatever filler it could until you got to the next dungeon. Hell, a good chunk of TP's areas were basically just linear paths with a few secrets or hidden paths sprinkled in. It's not just the pathway though, it's what they have in them. In the other three there's towns in the areas you have to go to, just gave a good variety. TP just really had Kariko Village, the Goron city, and Castle Town.

The bits between the outside before Arbiter's Grounds were especially bad. Felt really limited in what you could do and even worse were the wolf fetch quests. The later ones are admittedly better, but they still make replaying that game seem less appealing. As for the characters, Midna was a great one, but she was the only one I really liked. The other Zeldas were full of so many great NPCs even if they were just in there for a slight gag. I'm sure TP had a few of its own, but they didn't stick out the way others did and it made the world feel more barren.

Then there's all those items you get and never use again. The disc from Ariber's Grounds and ball and chains especially, but the boomerang and except for that one annoying "Find these statues" quest, the rod definitely fit in well there. Every puzzle felt like it was item of the dungeon, block and switch puzzles, and the bow and arrow. One of the reasons I love MC so much is because it does such a great job keeping every item relevant in unique ways that really made me think.

I still think TP is a great game. Just didn't have that magic OoT and WW did. Would still buy it day one if it was remade in HD for Wii U. Can't say the same for Skyward Sword.

This sucks because my favorite and the best entries are different.

My favorite is Wind Waker. With that said I think the best is OoT. My reasoning leads me to invoke the platformer thread. As discussed there how SMW took SMB3 to the next level using the same basics, so too did OoT to aLttP.

TP annoyed me with how there is really no discernable difference between it and OoT. Because of TP and the little I played of Skyward, I'm more interested in where the series goes on handheld.

My favorite is Twilight Princess. Loved the dungeons and the fighting the best out of the series. I also liked the breadth of the overworld as well. The big quibble I had with Ocarina of Time was how tiny and cramped the overworld was, the OoT overworld felt like a cul-de-sac in a suburban neighborhood, or like the hub worlds of Super Mario 64 or Banjo-Kazooie, maybe. Like Trip said, OoT did it first, but TP did it better.

After that is A Link to the Past, my favorite 2-D Zelda, and then Oka... errrr, I meant to say Wind Waker. The Gamecube was the best Zelda-playing console for sure.

See that is the kind of discussion I was hoping for Greenman. I don't really agree about the stuff between dungeons being boring. I enjoyed most of it. I don't really get the wolf fetch quest complaints in comparison to other Zeldas. To other games... sure. I'd say they are more enjoyable than WW's triforce hunt. I think Malo and Agitha were really memorable too as NPCs. I'll concede the predictable item use though I'd argue that the dungeon/puzzle design and uniqueness of stuff like the spinner and ball and chain made up for it for me.

volvocrusher wrote:Wind Waker. Loved its world more than any other Zelda, the 3D ones I felt were more fun to explore, but they all had much more linear pathways than WW did. There it was just pointing which way to go and sailing until you found something interesting. Also just had a certain charm to it most other Zeldas have, but WW more than any other.

This is a good argument for Wind Waker's overworld. Just the idea that you can go in any direction and how completely open it is. I'd say the emptiness of the overworld and the grid system held it back, but I could see why this line of reasoning would make it more appealing.

What about stuff like lack of dungeons (arguably because it was rushed right?), the triforce hunt as a bad replacement to those dungeons, the stealth segments, the drop in difficulty? How would Wind Waker fans tackle those issues.

(Note: I love Wind Waker, but just find some of its faults glaring and am curious how bigger fans look at those).

Lack of dungeons- I don't really care how many dungeons are in a Zelda game. Look at my second favorite with Minish Cap, there were what, six dungeons in that game? I would have liked more, but I really did not end up caring because I was enjoying myself the whole time. And that's what really matters.

Triforce hunt- Okay, at first I was with most opinions on this thing, but after a while I was thinking how once I beat the game I wanted to do this kind of stuff anyways so I enjoyed myself. I love this world and this was a great excuse to explore it, albeit it could be too vague at times. I think it would have worked better if these were all optional side quests and the Triforce was in a dungeon, but I enjoyed this part both times I played it and am sure I'll enjoy it in HD.

That's the difference between WW's Triforce hunt and TP's wolf hunt. In WW it was about exploring a huge world and in TP it was about exploring a small area, turning over every stone. A bigger world means less turning over every stone until you find it.

Stealth segments- Well nothing's perfect

Drop in difficulty- The order I played 3D Zeldas goes like this: TP-WW-OoT-MM-SS. Notice a pattern? They all got progressively more difficult in my opinion. So when I played WW, it was a difficulty spike for me, albeit not a big one. There was also a gap in between OoT and MM so I replayed them all in between and WW just stuck with me even though I wished it was more challenging like OoT.

I will agree that Agitha was a cool character, but I hated Malo. Hated all those kids in the first village.

I figured the dungeon/triforce thing would bug you more since it is basically a case of rushing a game out instead of leaving it in the oven. You were recently criticizing them doing the same with the next Smash Bros. I think (honestly I might be mixing this up with someone else though). But regardless, its more that WW has less and worse dungeons than TP and OoT to me. They're fine when looked at on their own, but when compared to other entries, it is a negative to me. Playing from the NES forward though I had a certain expectation for dungeon number though, but that is obviously a personal thing.

I also always found WW to be the easiest of the 3D Zeldas but I guess the differences between it and TP are pretty negligible.

I just played WW without knowing about it having less and once I beat it and heard that as a common complaint that I realized it had less dungeons and the Triforce thing felt kind of like filler. Sometimes it's about the timing as well as the quality.

Like I said in my first post. People seem to like these games for different reasons and depending on what elements are more important, you side with one entry or another. Expectations seem to play a part too.

It seems we can all agree Skyward Sword is disappointing based on these comments. Except ngamer who has never been disappointed by anything ever.

I thought I remembered reading something of ngamers that said SS was disappointing

Then Skyward Sword's levels of disappointment must be extra special.

A + Wiimote to swim.

A Link To The Past. I'm biased because it's also my favorite game of all time. There's not a false note anywhere: music, controls, dungeon design (some of the Dark World dungeons always manage to baffle me at some point) , world map (and how the mirror world expands on it), enemies, items (most people mention the Hookshot. I prefer the Pegasus Boots), secrets and worthwhile exploration.

Most people have that one (or more) games that they revisit throughout the years and LTTP is that game for me.

I need to emu AttP...

I have played quite little of this series, and I never owned OoT or Majora's mask when I had an N64 but I did play them. WW, seen it played but haven't played it myself. Just missed out on a lot of zelda I guess...

If I could just get through ALttP again without getting totally lost, I might have to agree with you, Avid. I picked it up again on GBA a few years back and I was having a blast until I hit that moment where I was just like "... well where do I go?" I guess I could've used a walkthrough but that just feels like cheating

Ocarina of Time is my favorite. Maybe only because it's the first one I played but I love just about every moment of that game (except the water temple of course). The world just feels magical to me and I love exploring it.

..I haven't played Majora's Mask... *hides*

I have 2 favorite Zelda games, WW and TP and I like them for different reasons. WW had the most charm and the characters in them were better. And the story, which I think it's best of all the 3D games. The artstyle also helped too. It's a very fantastic game, and it's really one of the Gamecube's best games and I'm glad that out of all the 3D Zelda games, it's getting an HD remake.

TP was one of those games I anticipated the most out of any game ever when I was very big on Zelda games. Still haven't found a game that I got really excited to try since TP, except SMG1/2. The dungeons are really the best ones in the 3D games, yeah the game was a bit slow to start but the dungeons from Arbiters Ground to City in the Sky made up for it. I also liked the overworld, it was pretty big but it kinda felt lifeless, there wasn't enough to do in it. WW did the overworld better imo. And the items, I liked them but didn't like that they became useless after the dungeons, like the spinner and ball with chain. I did use the ball with chain against enemies like ReDeads, which  die in 2 hits with it.

On SS, I'm currently replaying it to see if I feel the same about it as I did before. Playing the game the first time with a broken nunchuk did not help. I did enjoy it for what the game was, I can appreciate what they were trying to do but some ides were handled poorly like motion for underwater swimming, that could of easily used the control stick. I just think that SS came out a little too late on the Wii, it could of changed everything should it had been an earlier title.

Skyward Sword's problem was certainly not that it came out too late, if anything it's problem was that it was made too early. If it came out much earlier it would have needed a different control scheme since they wouldn't have had enough time to build it around Wii Motion Plus. If anything it's problem was that it came out too early, if they want to make a motion control Zelda they should make sure they have the technology for it perfected, not what SS gave us where it made so many mistakes wailing randomly was the best strategy unless you were shocked for messing up, then it was just luck.

I think it would have at least been good if the technology was there. Still can't see it being great with how terrible the stuff between dungeons is in the later parts of the game.

With a lot of Zelda games there are elements I dislike, but the problem with Skyward Sword is the motion controls pervade the entire experience. It's two things. One that the motion controls/tech just aren't good enough to handle what sword fights require (a huge part of the game). And two they decided that just about everything needed to be motion controlled. Some of this shit just needed regular controls. They overdid it. And I'm not one of those people who just dislikes motion controls. If it was mostly used for sword fighting and using certain items (and the controls worked) I'd be fine with it. SS had some very cool elements to be honest but... yeah.

I admittedly have not finished Majora's Mask so I can't say too much, but I hate the time limit thing. It changes the way I want to play Zelda (just exploring at whatever pace I want) and just turned me away from the game eventually. It's a worse gimmick to me than touch or motion controls (assuming those two actually work which is not the case with SS for instance). That's just a personal issue though. Not something I look at as some sort of objective flaw.

Yeah, I'm not anti-motion either, my second favorite Metroid is Prime 3, it's just that SS did them poorly that made me dislike it. Funny how it and PH are my least favorite even though I was okay with them putting in gimmicks when first announced. I like MM's time limit in theory, but once I get in a dungeon is where I have a problem with it. No big deal in the overworld, I'm fine with rewinding every now and then, but give me all the time I need for dungeons.

Yeah they tried doing too much with SS's controls, which is what killed the game. I like what they were trying to do because there is some things I like about it minus the in between filler stuff, but it would of been fine if the motion was used for sword fights and weapons that actually needed them.

Like I had to wrestle with the controls on my first playthrough, I was already playing with a broken controller so that was my fault, but some if not most of the controls don't work well. They work well when they actually work but get in the way when they don't. I'm lucky I didn't get a game over when I played it.

Honestly, if there's one thing I'm sick of hearing with SS, it's that the controls work well when they work. I have heard that used to defend it so many times, but controls working all the time are something that need to be taken for granted. We should never have to put up with a game making itself unplayable every now and then, especially one where precision is as important as SS.

I'm not defending it, but they do work when you aren't struggling with it. I'll be honest, I'd love the game more if they did away with the motions controls, or atleast the ones that weren't needed (like the swimming and everything else). I understand that some of those fights when enemies block wouldn't work but I wonder why they still went along with it, surely they had people testing the the game when it was in the works. I mean they don't have to give it motion controls because it's on the Wii, even though it does eliminate the purpose.

I may have put up with the fetch quest stuff better in favor of less motion controls.