Game of Thrones TV Show Discussion

I thought this episode was easily the best of season 5 so far. Some really strong writing and great scenes throughout. Too much time on the Boltons, agreed, but still enjoyable scenes with them none the less.

I must be the only one who liked the Boltons' scene. Sophie Turner just nailed it with her performance (here and all of her scenes in Winterfell); her reactions to Ramsay in particular. I even liked how Roose let Ramsay have his fun until it reached a point where he had to put the bastard in his place.

I liked the scenes, just felt they went a little long maybe (particularly the one with the kennel master's daughter but for all I know that's setting up something in the future)

Quick episode 6 thoughts:


- Margary going to trial was really unexpected, but I think Cercei's aggressiveness here could turn out to be a poor choice for her. Hopefully Olenna does something awesome again or Tommen grows a pair
- I know people will complain about the rape scene like always, but this one was a pretty logical progression. I just hope Sansa finally steps up. I have a theory that the truth about Ricken and Bran will come out and she'll use Theon in her favour somehow.
- "... until we find a cock merchant"
- I was going to be really disappointed if Jaime won that fight with one hand. I kind of was anyway, but maybe this will have some interesting implications

Unlike "that scene" from last season this one felt like the creators knew what they were doing. It was uncomfortable, but before this we've seen Ramsey hurt people that we maybe aren't as invested in but this one really made you DESPISE the Boltons. Not in that cartoony villain way but truly hate them. Very powerful scene, very sad, but not untasteful or nonsensical.

As for the rest of the episode...I thought it was pretty good. I love the Tyrion/Mormont pairing, and the stuff in Dorne is playing out to be interesting (if still not weird motivation-wise). And as always I love love love Olenna.

I loved seeing Lady Olenna again. "What veil?"

It brought a smile to my face when Littlefinger played Cersei against the Boltons but I'm beginning to wonder if his reach is starting to exceed his grasp in terms of his plans. I doubt that he knows anything about Ramsay's reputation if he found it that easy to leave Sansa in Winterfell. Maybe he's betting on Sansa to be strong enough to endure living with the Boltons.

The fight between the Sand Snakes and Jaime and Bronn was seriously disappointing. As a fan of action films, there is nothing more infuriating than badly shot/edited action. I wish someone could get their hands on the raw footage and make some sense out of it. After The Mountain vs The Viper and The Hound vs Brienne, this is just a waste.

As for the last scene, I think the tone was appropriate. This show has dealt with rape before but where it stumbles is the aftermath, not the ugly event itself. The question now is whether the show learns from its past mistakes. While part of me wishes Brienne came through the door and ran both Theon and Ramsay in with Oathkeeper at the end, I can't forget that this is the kind of show/story where it takes a while before evil deeds are punished. It's agonizing but the justice is pretty sweet.

The rape was rough to watch obviously, but I guess it depends where they go with this next whether I will think it was a good creative decision. And whether it was worth putting Sansa in this situation to begin with. My instinct says no, but I guess we will see. It isn't nearly as baffling as the Sept one last year though which seemed to just fly in the face of what we knew of those characters. I don't really agree that this was necessary to make me despise Ramsay as Twolf suggested. I was there already. Even if you feel that way, you have to look at the tradeoff and what it does to Sansa's character in the process (but again we have to see this play out some more to really know).

I do think Littlefinger's plan helps it make a bit more sense from his perspective which was good. The writers seemed to suggest in an interview just what you said avid, that LF didn't know of Ramsay's reputation (not sure if this makes sense, but that is how they see it). Also I must say the wedding scene in the snow looked great despite how much dread I felt about where it was going.

The fight scenes in this series have always been hit or miss, but the Dorne one was a new low. I still think Jaime's plan stunk and the Sand Snakes are laughable. Also they focused on Bronn getting cut, so I'm guessing he got poisoned by that cut.

I really liked the Arya scenes. The one where the one girl working there tells Arya her story and asks if it is a lie, the one where Arya lies to the little girl and the final one were all really good. Plus Jaqen asking if she hated The Hound too was good.

The King's Landing scenes worked well. Olenna was excellent. I still think Loras is a goofy caricature, but what are you going to do at this point.

I liked all the stuff with Jorah and Tyrion. Very funny stuff in there. I liked how Tyrion started by puffing up Jorah to try and get them to Meereen, but then Jorah really won them over with the truth about killing the bloodrider.

Some great quotes from this episode:
-“Get some rest dear. You look appalling.”
-“Put the pen down dear. We both know you aren’t writing anything.”
-“The dwarf lives until we find a cock merchant.”

I actually wouldn't make the argument the scene was necessary to hate him, I don't even think the scene was necessary at all, but as you said, it depends on what they do with it from here. My gut tells me nothing and it will be yet another time this show has not handled that subject very well. But I still stand by that it was 10,000 times more sensical than the sept scene last season for sure.

My mistake. I read your initial comment wrong (about hating Ramsay). And yeah the sept scene was a mess on multiple levels (the people involved couldn't even agree on what it was for fuck's sake). This one makes sense as it is (of course this would happen on Ramsay's wedding night, in fact it could have been worse). I guess I'm struggling with putting Sansa in this position to begin with.

I kind of thought she was starting to sort of learn the game last year and would begin to make moves for herself this season. I thought her talk with the Lords of the Vale was sort of her first step. A sign she was starting to get it sort of. And then the change of look was sort of meant to symbolize that change occurring. Admittedly one talk is not enough to say she knows what she is doing, but in a television show short on time, I kind of took that for what they might be going for... at least a first step.

So then I come to this marriage alliance and it just makes no sense for her to go along with this. We understand why it makes sense for the Boltons. Marrying Ramsay to a Stark gives them more legitimacy to other Northern houses. I can see why it makes sense to Littlefinger given his plan laid out this episode. But for Sansa it just doesn't. I don't know am I missing something? Or did she just immediately go back to being pushed into a shitty situation by the other parties involved? That is fine, but I guess I don't like it. Her agency seems lost.

Like if they are waiting for Stannis to beat the Boltons, why have her in harm's way by 1. being with the Boltons, and 2. being in the place Stannis plans to attack. She doesn't need to be married to a Bolton for the North to stand up for her. It is why Stannis asked for Jon to sit at Winterfell as a Stark. They could have taken Sansa up to The Wall and helped ensure Stannis' victory by using Sansa to bring the North to his side.

Eh. I don't know I'm rambling, but I was thinking about it this week and wanted to say it somewhere. If the show ends up just using this rape as a catalyst for change for Sansa or Theon, I will be disappointed.

Like you said, it makes sense but will it pay off beyond a "Oh Ramsey is shocking and horrible" which, like you said, we already knew? Hard to say. I certainly hope so, and I feel like Brienne's story plus the numerous loyal house staff are certainly pointing in that direction.

This: http://www.alternet.org/gender/all-hopefully-bad-arguments-about-rape-game-thrones-debunked

Totally agree with that. Every time this happens someone goes "oh my god like game of thrones thinks rape is fun, sexy, and cool eww not watching anymore." Yeah because this series has always been about wish-fulfillment. Maybe one day we'll just have shows fade to black with a title saying "rape is bad" so there's no actual thought process required.

My issue isn't the rape. It goes back to having Sansa agree to this marriage plan. It just doesn't make sense. I was hoping we were going to see Sansa making better decisions and ones more for her this season. I thought that was where she was headed. Agreeing to this marriage plan is either her just going along with others' plans. Or she truly decided to do it herself where I guess it just wasn't a smart decision. Not because of the rape, because it doesn't seem to benefit her, it helps her enemies and it puts her in danger (even if Ramsay wasn't a factor being at Winterfell with a battle looming puts her in unnecessary danger).

If they wanted to take her character in a different direction than I did, that is fine. I don't have to like it though right? Maybe they will make it work for me on the back end of the season, but I don't really like the storyline at the moment.

Your complaints are merited. I'm just talking about the people who come up with some bizarre complaint about pretty much any rape scene no matter what the circumstances or how it's presented. This storyline did kind of kill the momentum that she had at the end of last season. She's felt like this all season to me:

Since I have been bitching about the showrunners lately, let me send them some praise. Pretty awesome how fast they had Tyrion meet up with Dany. I can't wait to see them interact. Has me really excited for the rest of the season in Meereen. Between that and Cersei getting locked up we got some serious progress in both of those storylines. While I have enjoyed the High Sparrow so far this season, I think Jonathan Pryce was particularly excellent this week. Having Olenna come back to King's Landing was a great move too.

I'm getting super worried about Shireen! Still really enjoying all the Jon and Stannis stuff though even if this episode was just kind of transitional for them.

The Dorne plot continues to be a flop for me. I was right about Bronn getting poisoned I guess. I hope Doran becomes more of a presence in this storyline soon. Maybe him and Jaime interacting will help it.

We are really getting to the point where I don't know what is going to happen and it is pretty fun.

And a few book things.

Book Spoilers:

I feel like Dorne is all just a set up this season but at this point I'm just trying to forget the books because they are on their own wavelength at this point.

Overall though, really liked this week.

I was super down on this season at first, but its coming back around. I like how a lot of the characters are finally coming together and it doesn't feel like 8 different story lines happening in 8 different places. I'm really curious to see where they go with the Tyrion storyline. I always get excited to see characters that have never interacted with each other before meet for the first time. And Tyrion - Danny should not disappoint!

I feel like Tyrion meeting Dany so suddenly in this episode was kind of weird. I guess it saves that storyline from just being one long road trip, though, which is good.

Olenna's scenes this week were some of my favorites of the season. The High Sparrow arresting Cersei was a great scene too. It's weird to see her in trouble because I think she's the only character who's been in the same place doing the same thing pretty much all series.

I LOVED this episode. I stand by my own opinion that I think the writers have done a great job of raising the stakes where George didn't. I agree the Dorne story line is weaker than its book counterpart and that it's overall gotten a bit less political but I think it's really good!

BUT, I worry about this season not because of its quality but because it is admittedly slower. I just hope people have the attention spans for it.

Also that last battle scene...AMAZING! Didn't see it coming, was completely on the edge of my seat. Me and my girlfriend physically cheered when he cut up that White Walker.

That final scene was awesome. At first I was like "really they're gonna attack right now? How convenient" but the execution more than made up for it. The whitewalker threat is finally starting to feel real. I'm not sure there was a weak scene in the whole episode.

And Jorah still can't catch a break, poor guy

I was with you. I thought they'd kind of make quick work of it/cut away but when they stayed on it and ended the episode with it. Sheeeeeeeeeit. That's good television.

Awesome episode. Easily the best of the season. The fight scene at the end was probably the best in the series. So many cool moments in it. Wights climbing on the giant and him flinging them around. Valyrian Steel working against the Walker. The wights diving off the cliff. And as ajapam said it finally puts some weight behind the Walkers being the big bad. That sequence was full of dread. Just amazing.

I liked Dany and Tyrion's conversations a ton too. Made up for the lackluster first meet between them last week. The periodic check-ins with Cersei were good. Even liked the Sansa/Theon one. Great acting by both of them in that one. Honestly every scene worked tonight.

I'm sure I've said it before but scenes like that last one are where this show's reputation really pays off. I legitimately thought Jon was going to die at times during that fight with the whitewalker. Then he hits it and it just explodes which feels so good. This show feels like watching sports sometimes

Oooooh yeah, DAT CLIFF SCENE! Oh man. That was so cool.

I hadn't really thought about it, but Trip might be right, that may indeed be the best fight of the series. Can't stop thinking about it today!

Another thing: I really liked how they handled Arya becoming someone else. I was wondering how they'd make that work

Just saw the episode. Loved every moment. And that whitewalker massacre scene was so fucking dope. That's the kind of sequence they'd usually save for the penultimate episode. That teaches one not to underestimate this series. The moment when the one wilding elder (the woman) won't kill the whitewalker children was so sad and scary.

Did I ever say that I loved this show? 'Cause I do.

Yeah, the Arya scene was nicely edited to condense like a couple of chapters of the book into one tidy, neat sequence.

Flying on the dragon looked kind of silly, to be honest. At least the band is back together

Also, goddammit Stannis was my king

I was hoping they would just do one shot: she gets on the dragon, he launches into the air and flies out of sight because that CG was lame. That said everything until the weird CG with Drogon was great.

Also I cried at the Shireen scene. No joke even. When the mother (I forget her name) is spouting her standard religious shit but then at that key moment realizes what's done really got me. Also, just for the acting in that scene, whoever the girl was who played Shireen, she SOLD that scene. Those screams...ugh.

Daznak's Pit is one of my favorite book scenes. It was definitely a bit better in my imagination. That isn't a knock on the show, this one is really just hard to pull off I guess. If they had just done what you said Twolf and cut away before the final close-up flying shots (they looked pretty lame) that would have helped. But Drogon looked amazing before Dany hopped aboard. The shot inside his mouth and him flinging that one harpy and him circling around the stadium to enter were awesome. The whole sequence was pretty epic though. I dug it generally. The scene actually plays out way different than the book other than the Dany flying away on Drogon.

Shireen dying was super sad. She seemed like the sweetest girl in the world. I was surprised Stannis did it. I've heard arguments for why he would do that and why he wouldn't... still not sure how I feel about it. I actually thought Mel would do it while he was in battle or something and Stannis would perhaps return to find out that maybe the tide turning in battle was because Mel killed Shireen or something. I did like Selyse's reaction, because despite how much she believed in the Red God she ultimately can't handle Shireen screaming and burning. That makes sense even for a shit mother like her I think.

I do wish that the final thing driving Stannis to this decision wasn't Ramsay and "20 good men" somehow magically making stuff in his camp spontaneously combust. I guess this is the Ramsay that ran off the Ironborn, some of the toughest warriors in Westeros, without even putting a shirt on so maybe that makes sense. Obviously I'm joking around, but I think that opening bit could have been handled way better.

Other stuff:
-I guess Arya will fake being a young prostitute to kill Trant.
-Dorne wasn't offensive or anything this week, just completely dull. Though why they gave a scene to the Sand Snakes playing slaps, I have no idea.
-Why would Jon land above the Wall to bring back the Wildlings? Why not at Eastwatch? After running away from the White Walkers, you'd think they wouldn't want to make that trek beyond The Wall.
-I don't recall how greyscale works. Can Jorah transfer it by touch? Or do you have to touch the infected area? Just curious since they so clearly showed Dany and Jorah touch (which I realize was to signify for her trusting him again but this crossed my mind).