Gotham Discussion

Know me and Trip will be watching this, so that's enough for a discussion here. If anyone else tunes in, great, the more the merrier.

As for the pilot, I liked it a lot. Like the main cast so far and the kid they got to play Bruce is pretty good, especially for a child actor. Catwoman's still up in the air though and Poison Ivy's actress was a little wooden, so we'll see if the child actors will hurt it. But I like the plot they have set up a lot, I like that they have Gordon's character as a pure cop in a corrupt force, and there's a lot of potential in good stuff from Harvey and Barbara. Also love the guy they got to play the Penguin.

As for the bad, do these guys know what subtlety is? Crap like "Keep the riddles in the crosswords Ed" and Oswald already having the nickname Penguin is so blatant and cheesy. And keep Poison's name Pamela, you shouldn't change her name to Ivy.  Compared to the Spectacular Spider-Man premiere where they introduce six different characters who become villains in future episodes. But all of them have their own purpose to the plot, like how Spidey's foils a bank robbery in the beginning that was done by Flint Marko and Alex O'Hern and never get any indication they'll be villains later unless you're familiar with the franchise.

Also since I'm certain the guy doing standup will become the Joker (why else have something that pointless?), I really hope that we don't get to know his life before he becomes the villain. The Joker works best when you know as little as possible about him. The Joker is someone beyond understanding, where if you try to get him as anything other than a lunatic, you'll go mad. That's why Harley Quinn is a perfect sidekick to him. If he just makes small cameos like that, then all of the sudden he starts causing destruction, that could be interesting. But I don't want to see him lose everything and see the "funny side." I'll take Heath Ledger always changing his story about how he got his scars over that any day.

I thought it was pretty good. My fears of shoehorning were definitely realized since a couple characters seemed to be in the pilot just for the fuck of it. And as you said, they had all the subtlety of a monster truck when introducing them. I probably would have looked the other way if they weren't so on the nose. Felt like a cheap ploy to appeal to people just looking for some Batman references. There were some other eye-roll-inducing lines of dialogue elsewhere too (like in Jim and Bruce's first conversation).

Otherwise, I liked it. I really like the main cast and the set designs/look of Gotham. The plot was good as was the introduction of Falcone. Seems like a solid setup for the show in general. Penguin was really fantastic too... blatant Penguin references notwithstanding.

I read an interview where the showrunner said he'd be laying red herrings all over the place for the Joker and while he would eventually be introduced in the show, it wouldn't be any time soon. So I wouldn't take that comedian bit to be a Joker intro. Or the showrunner could just be leading us astray and it was him. I doubt it but who knows. Either way there is a good chance if the show is a hit they will probably do what you are worried about with showing the Joker... pre-Joker I guess.

Anyway, pretty good start. Excited to watch more.

The red herring has me relieved, but yeah, I am afraid that the Joker will have a pre-Joker plot. I get some people love when they gave him one in The Killing Joke and it's a great comic despite that, but that's always been my personal interpretation on the character.

And I gotta agree that the look of Gotham is fantastic. Perfect blend of gritty and comic-booky.

As far as handling future villains goes, they did a much better job this episode. Penguin hating his name so much that he killed those guys for saying he looked like one for awesome. And Selina having the nickname Cat was a little cheesy, but a lot more believable than Poison's first name as Ivy. And Edward just being creepy wanting more praise and recognition than he gets is exactly how the character should be pre-Riddler.

Plot was good too. Kids seem to be doing a good job. Their acting isn't perfect, but they feel like kids talking and not bad kid actors when they have weird moments and I'm okay with that. Like the cliffhanger too, having Selina give that info so soon is a good indicator that they won't try to get us coming back by keeping us in the dark.

Oh didn't see you posted about the last episode. Yeah they definitely handled things better. I guess not being the pilot they weren't trying to do so much. Catwoman was generally just a lot more interesting now that she wasn't just showing up doing cat poses on rooftops. I liked her here. Penguin has been great so far.

I don't really like this version of Alfred. Also young Bruce listening to metal and drawing dark stuff reminded me a little of the LEGO movie Batman's song. He's so dark and edgy! Anyway good episode.

Have you been keeping up with this Greenman? I have grown to like it a bit more as it has gone on. I'm surprised how much I like both Alfred and the Bruce and Selina interactions since I was critical of both at one point. Barbara and Harvey Dent kind of suck. Bullock is awesome and Gordon is pretty solid. Edit: And most everything with the criminal underground especially Penguin and Carmine I have liked a lot too.

I'm a couple episodes behind, but the last one where Zsasz appeared was pretty damn good. Agree that it is getting better and Penguin is hands down the best part.

Caught up with it now. Definitely liking it a lot more than I did when it started. Interested to see what's going to happen in Arkham.