Next Gen Consoles

That's the tricky argument, Greenie. Everything you say is true. The only real retort is what would it hurt to have dual analog? Would it allow broader delevopment or hinder what the platform's design and purpose?

I know that I like my wife's 3DS even though I think the design is far inferior to the Vita. In all aspects. I'm probably not the target audience so I don't really feel strongly either way. Just throwin shit out there.

I agree Spiddy. It does limit the design. But I wasn't arguing against that, I was only saying why this was such a huge issue with the PSP but no one really addresses it with the DS and 3DS. I agree that the Vita has a far superior design to the regular 3DS. XL isn't as bad because of how you have to hold the Vita in an awkward way to not hit the back pad, but I still say the Vita's above it design wise. It's the game libraries that make me love my 3DS more.

I'm interested in your opinions about remote play and indies. Personally I think Sony is walking a fine line should they not hold themselves to Steam-like tablet experiences instead of smartphone stuff.

Also, when I thow down on a 3DS it is xl or gtfo, correct? These standard sales are getting incresingly more difficult to resist.

But by not having an analog stick or two, doesn't it limit what the systen "could" do? I'd rather have one analog stick as opposed to zero, and I'd rather have two as opposed to one. A good developer will get around the shortcomings of one stick. I bet the DS would have had a lot more 3D games if they had at least one analog nub to nub on.

Like I said before, I'm not defending it, I am just explaining why people complained about it. I agree about the analog stick part, but what is much, much more important is that I would rather have games that are built with the system's limitations in mind rather than games which are designed with a system with more options in mind then made worse when the developers compensate in ways which don't work. The second of these has more options, but the first produces better games.

That was DS versus PSP in a nutshell. PSP did have a lot of games that worked flawlessly with its limitations just like DS had things like its Kingdom Hearts games. Yet there were so many games like Star Wars Battlefront or MGS:PW which I thought should have been on something with a second stick instead which were less common on the DS. A good game is a good game no matter what kind of controller or interface it is built for while a flawed game is still a flawed game even if built on a system with more options. That's why everyone likes Sonic 2 more than Sonic 06.

Also I thought the DS's touch screen added more than the PSP's excuse for an analog nub, so I'd say the DS still gave more options to developers. Hated that nub so much.

I loved Peace Walker and thought it controlled great. Of course I will always prefer the PS3 HD collection now, but I was never bothered by the PSP game. Wish they would have included this in the Vita HD remake.

But that you prefer the PS3 version and wish it was on Vita just proves my point. It was held back by the PSP, which was why only one nub was such a big criticism. Besides, PW was the exception, not the rule. Most were like Star Wars Battlefront with horrible controls for a shooter and just made everyone wish it were made for a console instead.

But I never said "This game sucks. Needs two analogs." while playing the game. I agree that it is better with 2, but I thought the controls worked fine when I played it on the PSP. Like I said up above, I'll always prefer 2 to 1.

Like I said above, PW was the exception. There were a lot of games where that is exactly what I thought. And this is still about people criticizing it over the DS. If Phoenix Wright or one of the DS's Castlevanias or Dragon Quests came to Wii U, their controls wouldn't be better for being on that system. Having a flaw means getting criticism even if the product is still good, which is why the PSP got so much criticism for not having a stick while the DS got little if any.

Personally, I thought PW was kind of awkward too, especially with so much mapped to the D-Pad. I still loved the game, but I was wishing it was on PS3/360 the whole time while playing on PSP.

The 2DS is one of the worst looking designs I've ever seen. Holy hell, like I know it's aimed at little kids but...ugh.

I like the idea of the 2DS as a cheap system that's good for kids. But the control layout gives me the idea that Nintendo forgot to design it for human beings. It looks seriously uncomfortable.

Lots of PSP games worked without a second stick. I don't know why Peace Walker is the "exception" (I might be misunderstanding this bit of the discussion though). Lots of games were designed to fit to the hardware well though even if lots were the other way.

But really there shouldn't be an argument here. The PSP and the 3DS should have had second sticks/nubs/circle pads. They'd both be better for it. I'd say the same thing about the Wii to be honest. I find the DS to be a different deal due to its power limitations and the style of software it typically went with. Sony knew it after the PSP and sure as fuck put one in their next handheld. I'm not sure why Nintendo didn't go to two as well. If the add-on is an indication third-parties sure as hell wanted a second stick too.

Maybe I was playing the wrong games but Peace Walker is the only game I played on the system with face button aiming or any form of trying to combine moving and aiming at the same time that didn't control like ass. That's still beside the point though was that there were much more games where this was an issue issue on the PSP than not having a second one is on the 3DS (for now at least).

If 3DS gets games hurt by the lack of a second stick to the degree PSP had, I'll call it out. And it would have been a huge problem without the CPP last year with Resident Evil, KH, and MGS3D and it still was far from an ideal scenario. Meanwhile I want a Kid Icarus sequel or even port with two sticks or Wiimote aiming so bad. But as long as it gets a lot many good games without any of them hurt by a second stick like it has this year, I'm not going to complain and just game on.

Well there were other games that controlled well with the face button aiming (the Syphon Filter games come to mind), but I'm not delusional. They'd be better with two sticks. But there were plenty of games in general that didn't need a second stick on PSP. Why are you only looking at shooters for games that worked without a second stick on PSP, but complementing the 3DS for having games that simply don't need one? The PSP had those games too.

My whole point is they'd both be better with one. I'm not saying the same thing Bret is that each should be equally complained about. I just think they should both have one. And they'd both be better for it.

Here's the thing: I'm still just explaining why people bitched at the lack of a second stick. And the period when this happened was 2005-2007. And it was nothing like the 3DS now is back then. Way too many of its games like Splinter Cell, Katamari, and Death Jr where they could have at least been decent with a second stick and instead were ass. There were games like Lumines or Daxter where this was either not an issue or a small one, but at that time a lot of PSP games were ruined because they were made for the PSP instead of the PS2.

PSP got better later on as it got more 2D games, turn based games, and 3D games that didn't need camera control, but you know what else happened then? People didn't bitch about the lack of a second stick as much. So 2008-2011 PSP is more like the 3DS in that regard, but I am referring to the period where people were bitching so much about how it only had one stick when I say that. Just like how the 3DS in 2012 had games which weren't perfect from the hardware, but not as bad as the PSP was initially.

Shouldn't have lumped Peace Walker in there in hindsight. I just remember it was a common complaint there even though the game came out much later when that kind of thing wasn't the exception as much to the PSP's library.

Yeah we are clearly making different points here. It also seems I did misunderstand the Peace Walker comments too. I see what you meant now with that last comment. That had me thinking you were saying something you weren't.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The PSP was worse with this issue. I was never denying that. Again the PW comment threw me elsewhere for a bit there. I still wish the 3DS had a second stick because I think it'd be better for it.

Another factor for me is the games that I purchased for my PSP. I didn't get my PSP until Vice City Stories came out, and the games that I bought for the system were games that were put out by really good companies that already knew how to make good games. Off the top of my head, these are the games that I had both Grand Theft Auto games, both God of War games, both Splinter Cell games, both Metal Gear games, Crisis Core, Resistance, Loco Roco 2, Jeanne D'Arc, Daxter, Final Fantasy Tactics, Killzone, Little Big Planet, and probably a few others that I can't remember. I didn't buy a lot, because I wasn't much of a portable gamer at the time. The games I had controlled great, but I don't doubt for a second that some of the games out there controlled like big ol' douche bags.

@Trip - I think You'd like Peace Walker, kind of had a Syphon Filter feel from what I remember. Sony really needs to make another Syphon Filter game. And Loco Roco.

I wouldn't have said all those games controlled great. I remember GTA having some frustrating control issues though not enough to break the game while Splinter Cell had the worst controls I experienced with the system. I might have played more of these bad shooters than the rest of you though because one of my friends back then kept buying them and I couldn't take more than five minutes of it when I tried it out.

Actually, I meant Syphon Filter and not Splinter Cell, sorry about that. Didn't even know they made a Splinter Cell game for hte PSP. Vice City I remember being pretty great, but Liberty City Stories had some glitches that made controlling the game harder. I remember driving feeling really floaty, but that really didn't have anything to do with the stick, more the game design.

I was reading that one can sync PS3 controllers with Ouya. Anyone mess around with that? I'm curious for the EMU aspect alone.

Need to get my time zones correct. I was looking forward to the Sony pre TGS stream and missed it by an hour. Stupid that I even cared to try...

So, PS Vita TV... How about that?

This seems like a weird direction to go, but $100 is a good price for a Persona 4 Golden machine. I wonder what this will do for the Vita. Larger install base and less bad touchscreen gimmicks? I hope so.

I just wish they could've added a hard drive and Ps2 compatibility. Everything should have Ps2 compatibility

This seems pretty awesome. I wouldn't say no to playing the games I have on the big screen.

Definitely won't be getting it. Most the fun of playing a Vita is using the hardware for me and that defeats the purpose now. Still hope it does well if it means better software sales.

Yeah the Vita's biggest issue is that its install base sucks so much that no one wants to bother making any games for it. If this move helps improve sales and make it more attractive to third-parties to make games, I guess it has to be a good move. I mean the Vita hardware sales are so dire pretty much anything is worth a shot I guess.

Someone could get this, and end up liking their games so much that they want to actually get a Vita for the road. Another thing, that new white model Vita is so damn beautiful.

I don't really see that happening anytime soon. Vita doesn't exactly have the kind of library strong enough to make it a reality.

Yeah I can see this thing bringing in a lot of new people, but I can't see anyone enjoying this thing so much that they want to buy an actual Vita as well. Maybe the combination of Ps1, PSP, and Vita games will convince them, but I'm not so sure.

As hard as I am on the system, I actually think I play the thing the most out of anyone here and know I own the most games. Granted, it's because I review a lot of games, many of which are mediocre to terrible, but every time I get an email that I'm covering one of its better indie games I cheer. Vita really does make games like Stealth Inc and Spelunky better to me. Hope I can review Hotline Miami 2 and Rogue Legacy on it as well.

Speaking of Vita, I heard Chaos Rings is on it now. Know some people like Bret and Spiddy would want that one.