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Re: Now Playing

Post by ajapam on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:22 pm

I loved the snow part in Journey. Though it probably only works if you've been playing with the same partner for a while. I imagine it's boring by yourself. It's overrated and overpriced, but Journey is still one of the better art games out there in my opinion. It's not like Dear Esther... that "game" sucks
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Re: Now Playing

Post by volvocrusher on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:28 pm

All art games are equally worse than Shadow of the Colossus.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Miraculous Kaydybug on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:16 pm

Shadow of the Colossus is probably the reason I hate art games. I get the game might be good, but it's awful camera and framerate gave me the worst motion sickness I had in my life. Tried to play it got to like the second Colossus started throwing up and had to lie down.

And before people tell me the HD version fixed this I refuse to pay money for it and am actually afraid to play it again. The first time was NOT a good experience at all. I doubt even if they fixed these issues i'd be able to enjoy it.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Bannen on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:29 pm

Games that are too concerned with "proving" they're art tend to forget that games are supposed to be fun.

I don't want to buy a game so I can study it like my TV is a museum. I want one that plays well and entertains.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by SanAndreasX on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:38 pm

I like games that look artistic without being explicitly artsy-fartsy. There are plenty of games out there with incredible gameplay and wonderful visuals that aren't blatantly self-aware of their artsiness. Arthouse games can be fun, too, and I certainly wouldn't discourage someone from making them, but they need to remember these are games first and foremost.


Last edited by SanAndreasX on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Jail's not so bad. You can make sangria in the terlet. 'Course it's shank or be shanked.)

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Captain N on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:58 pm

Heh, I remember my cousin once got motion sickness from playing Sonic Adventure DX.

And aren't games supposed to be, IDK, FUN? That's the purpose of games and should always be at it's core, fun. Yes they can be artsy and have engaging stories, but at what cost if you're not having fun while playing a game? I'd play any game as long as I have fun with it.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by Krubixcube on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:20 pm

Eh...I don't agree with that statement. Yeah, games that are being pretentious for the sake of it...yeah, ok. But people get different levels of engagement out of different games.

I loved Shadow of the Colossus, and yeah it's flawed but it engages differently. Yeah, it's not as fun as other games, and I was going to put "fun" in quotes but it's not sarcastic, it really is not as fun, but I don't think its fair to throw it out entirely.

I don't like certain "fun" games that other people do, but I feel like those games don't get nearly the same level of flak with the exception of Call of Duty, but I think that's more to do with sequelitis and its backing company than the fact that it's made to be fun.

Similarly (and i do this to) I defend loads of games for being shit story wise or making missteps but saying "eh, but it's fine because it's fun" (like God of War recently) but when I do the opposite and say "Well, the gameplay's pretty weak but the story is really moving" I get labeled pretentious.

Bullshit.

Rant over.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Bannen on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:42 pm

Krubixcube wrote:Similarly (and i do this to) I defend loads of games for being shit story wise or making missteps but saying "eh, but it's fine because it's fun" (like God of War recently) but when I do the opposite and say "Well, the gameplay's pretty weak but the story is really moving" I get labeled pretentious.

Bullshit.
The problem is that if a game has a non-existant or terrible story, excellent or interesting gameplay can rescue it with relative ease, because you're going in with the assumption that you're at least going to have a fun time, even if the story fails. With the reverse, it's pretty damn hard for any story to make a game worth dealing with if it plays like shit.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by volvocrusher on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:47 pm

I wouldn't say every game needs to be fun either. I get if someone only wants fun, but The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line weren't fun, but I still loved those games. There just needs to be a point to what they're doing and why they're a game. Walking Dead had me make some real fucked up decisions with no right answer and had a cast of characters I really wanted to protect. I wouldn't have got the same experience from a movie. And Spec Ops pointed how fucked up military shooters are nowadays and ended up being incredible. Journey I didn't really see the point other than to have you walk around some impressive scenery and inevitably win a bunch of awards. That's just not enough for me, but not because it's not fun.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by ajapam on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:16 pm

My problem with most art games is that they basically need to hold up a sign saying "I AM ART" to be considered art. To me, that just shows how much hype affects the general opinion of a game.

What I mean is that there are a lot of games that I think are good works of art because they tell a great story with great characters and so on. But people don't seem to talk about them as much because they're still traditional videogames at the core. At the same time, people gush over even some of the worst "art games."
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Re: Now Playing

Post by volvocrusher on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:19 pm

Bannen wrote:
Krubixcube wrote:Similarly (and i do this to) I defend loads of games for being shit story wise or making missteps but saying "eh, but it's fine because it's fun" (like God of War recently) but when I do the opposite and say "Well, the gameplay's pretty weak but the story is really moving" I get labeled pretentious.

Bullshit.
The problem is that if a game has a non-existant or terrible story, excellent or interesting gameplay can rescue it with relative ease, because you're going in with the assumption that you're at least going to have a fun time, even if the story fails. With the reverse, it's pretty damn hard for any story to make a game worth dealing with if it plays like shit.
Still, there are games that took very basic gameplay and found a way to make it compelling. Uncharted's shooting and platforming are nothing special, but it was so well paced that I still had a blast. The game just needs to find a way to stay compelling whether it's through fun, story, atmosphere or something else. A bad story focused game tries to make up for bland gameplay while a good one hides it.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by BretBaber on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:29 pm

To me I had fun while playing Journey. I don't know how to explain it. I loved what my eyes were seeing. I loved the music. I loved everything about the game. Different people find different things fun. I love soccer, watching and playing, but everyone else sees that as something that isn't fun. Everything about Journey worked for me.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by volvocrusher on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:35 pm

Not like we're hammering you for liking it, it's just when you say you don't know why people complained about it here, well, chances are it's going tot urn to Journey bashing.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by BretBaber on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:06 am

I guess I don't think it's a game that deserves to be bashed. A game that's not for everyone? Yup, I can see that. Horrid crapper of a game? No way, I can't see that.

For some reason I've never liked pinball machines. I think part of it is that it is too stressful.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by TripOpt55 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:29 am

I sort of like to pile on Journey as a joke, but I just can't see anything I wrote here in this thread being out of line or exaggerating. Has anyone said anything really bad about it Bret? Or something untrue? It doesn't really help its case when people who like it just sort of describe it as, "Well I just like it." While most dissenters have solid reasons for not liking it. I don't think it's shit, but I do find it pretty mediocre. My piling on it last year was largely due to people saying it was a GotY contender while games like Mark of the Ninja (which has since gotten some more recognition though not nearly as much as Journey has) went under the radar and MotN runs circles around Journey.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by BretBaber on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:42 am

Not on here, more on 1up. I just went into it thinking it was a really bad game from everything I read.

I like it because it is simple and beautiful to look at. It says a lot without saying anything at all. You kind of just figure things out without any kind of hint. The game just felt refreshing, it was nice not having to shoot something or inflict pain on something to beat a game. It was just a nice breath of fresh air.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Miraculous Kaydybug on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:54 am

I'm with Trip most of the reasons i bash the game is all the undeserved awards. I don't think a game with that little content deserves all the accolades Journey got. There are other better games more deserving of awards than Journey, like Tomb Raider which is just as awesome the second time around. Almost done with my second playthrough and still thoroughly enjoying it. (Yes i know that game was released this year, but I'm just saying also trying to keep it on topic since I am playing it)

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Re: Now Playing

Post by TripOpt55 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:19 am

I think my tone on 1up was always obviously half-joking and more so annoyed with its quality in relation to the hype it received. I think you were probably getting the wrong idea if I came off like I was saying it was bad. I enjoyed it more when I first played it too, but it is one of those games that just gets worse the more you think about it to me. Again mediocre and overrated is how I would describe it more so than bad.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by volvocrusher on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:27 am

The hype's what really bothered me about Journey. It was a nice change of pace, sure, but the real reason it gets so many awards is because That Game Company touted it as so revolutionary when it was just a pretty game. I'll go play something like Primordia which is so much more brilliant especially for a downloadable game, but because it got no hype upon release, no one gives a shit about it. It had brilliant things to say and presented them in a great game. But it wasn't even nominated for anything.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Captain N on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:20 am

Playing Split/Second, I'm loving this game so far.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by chocobot on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:31 am

I really have nothing to add to the Journey discussion since I'd just be repeating what everyone else said. Not a bad game, actually quite good, but over priced, overhyped and not deserving of all the awards. I really did enjoy it but was still left expecting so much more in the end.

Anyway, Dead Space 3 is pretty difficult with a co-op partner who only plays while drunk. I have no idea when I'll have the game completed at the rate we're going...
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Re: Now Playing

Post by Krubixcube on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:56 am

I haven't played Journey but it seems silly to go off on it because the way the press hyped it.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by avidacridjam on Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:02 pm

Just finished Uncharted 3's campaign mode. Not as well-written as the previous game but a blast nevertheless. Plenty of great set-pieces although I wish Chloe stuck around. I miss the in-game banter. Still, I don't regret buying or playing it.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Bannen on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:25 pm

volvocrusher wrote:I wouldn't say every game needs to be fun either. I get if someone only wants fun, but The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line weren't fun, but I still loved those games. There just needs to be a point to what they're doing and why they're a game. Walking Dead had me make some real fucked up decisions with no right answer and had a cast of characters I really wanted to protect. I wouldn't have got the same experience from a movie. And Spec Ops pointed how fucked up military shooters are nowadays and ended up being incredible. Journey I didn't really see the point other than to have you walk around some impressive scenery and inevitably win a bunch of awards. That's just not enough for me, but not because it's not fun.
I argue that I had fun playing The Walking Dead, decisions or not, but I think your level of fun with a game like that is how much you're into point-and-click type games. The Walking Dead is a good game - not an artistic expression. I haven't gotten around to trying Spec Ops: The Line.

A game can deliver a message, can present a tone or idea, but if it's not enjoyable, what's the point? Did The Walking Dead entertain you? Even if you weren't fist pumping and had a smile plastered across your face all the time, wasn't it "fun" on some level? If no, then it has failed.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by TripOpt55 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:44 pm

Krubixcube wrote:I haven't played Journey but it seems silly to go off on it because the way the press hyped it.
I like to joke around about it because I find not just press, but gamers to overrate the game. I do this often even with TV shows. It's alright to joke around right? But I have explained at length many times why I find the game to be mediocre and why other games are better and more deserving of praise. What is the issue here?
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Re: Now Playing

Post by volvocrusher on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:00 pm

Bannen wrote:
volvocrusher wrote:I wouldn't say every game needs to be fun either. I get if someone only wants fun, but The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line weren't fun, but I still loved those games. There just needs to be a point to what they're doing and why they're a game. Walking Dead had me make some real fucked up decisions with no right answer and had a cast of characters I really wanted to protect. I wouldn't have got the same experience from a movie. And Spec Ops pointed how fucked up military shooters are nowadays and ended up being incredible. Journey I didn't really see the point other than to have you walk around some impressive scenery and inevitably win a bunch of awards. That's just not enough for me, but not because it's not fun.
I argue that I had fun playing The Walking Dead, decisions or not, but I think your level of fun with a game like that is how much you're into point-and-click type games. The Walking Dead is a good game - not an artistic expression. I haven't gotten around to trying Spec Ops: The Line.

A game can deliver a message, can present a tone or idea, but if it's not enjoyable, what's the point? Did The Walking Dead entertain you? Even if you weren't fist pumping and had a smile plastered across your face all the time, wasn't it "fun" on some level? If no, then it has failed.
I wouldn't really say fun. Intense, emotional, mind blowing. But when I think of fun, I think of flying as Mario or driving a giant ball of yarn around and hitting people with a giant purple dildo. Not chopping a guy's leg off while he's screaming in agony.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by BretBaber on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:34 pm

Fun to me is when I enjoy something. I enjoyed this game, so it was fun.

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Re: Now Playing

Post by Bannen on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:18 pm

BretBaber wrote:Fun to me is when I enjoy something. I enjoyed this game, so it was fun.
That's probably the best way to sum it up.

...I totally enjoyed chopping that guy's leg off.
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Re: Now Playing

Post by volvocrusher on Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:27 pm

I'm just saying there's stuff in games like chopping off your finger in Heavy Rain or the stuff on Ayn Rand in Bioshock that aren't in there for fun, but still make it better. Don't get me wrong, I prefer fun games over story games, but to everything doesn't need to revolve around fun. Books, movies and television don't do the same, so why should games?

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Re: Now Playing

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