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If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be?

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If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be? Empty If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be?

Post by BretBaber Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:27 pm

It is well established that Trip doesn't like the genre that I think almost everyone on the forum loves, the role playing game. Why? Who knows. Maybe he doesn't approve of the turn based combat. Perhaps the stories are a little too out there. It could be that the level grinding puts him off. Or maybe he just doesn't like fun.

If you were to give him an RPG to try and persuade him that level grinding and turn based combat is all the rage, what game would you introduce to him? Why would you introduce that game to him? What parts of the game do you think would sway his heart to love the RPG? What might he not like about the game?

Thought this thread would be a nice way of making a new topic, but also honoring a fellow PS Peep. He's the Platforming Prince, but he's the Role Playing Pariah.
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Post by BretBaber Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:34 pm

Right off the bat I'd want to say a game like Brave Fencer Musashi, but that's already a game that is in Mr. Trip's comfort zone. It's no secret he loves Zelda games, so action RPG are nothing new to him. By playing and loving Brave Fencer Musashi (which I'm sure he would) wouldn't introduce him to the joys of the traditional role playing mechanics. So right off the bat, I'm gonna push this one to the side and challenge him a bit.

The game I'd pick is Final Fantasy IX. Of course I personally think VII is the best, but that isn't for everyone, and it definitely hasn't aged as well as IX. Final Fantasy IX would give him a cast of characters that I think he'd like. I could see him liking the story of Vivi, laughing at the goofiness of Steiner, and enjoying the love interest of Zidane and Garnet. The battle mechanics are great too, especially for a newcomer. It's deep enough to challenge him, but simple enough for a newbie. Like guns in Ratchet and Clank, I can see him level grinding this game to unlock the skills you require from wearing weapons and armor.

I also think he'd enjoy the story. It isn't the greatest of Final Fantasy stories, but there's enough character driven moments and mystery to keep him playing. Also, he would get to hear one of Uematsu's many awesome soundtracks, where he for sure would be nodding his head to these tunes.

Final Fantasy IX is one of those games I'd use as a gateway into the world of Role Playing Games. The only flaws I find with the game today are the somewhat slow battles, but even then it's not enough to make you want to put the controller down. So for all of these reasons, this is the game I would pick for Trip to start his role playing adventures with.
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Post by TripOpt55 Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:46 pm

Haha... you are the best Bret. I have mentioned before that I tried rpgs when I was young and that is was the turn-based combat that turned me off. Basically battling in a menu puts me to sleep. Then I just never got into them after that. Grinding isn't really for me either. I have tried a couple action-based ones but for whatever reason don't stick with them.

Having said all of that, if you rpg people around here come up with a consensus game for me to play, I will give it a go and see if I can get into this genre you all love so much.
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Post by BretBaber Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:49 pm

What game did you try when you were younger and at what age? I think you have to start them at the right age to really appreciate them, plus they have to have really good battle mechanics and upgrades to make you feel like level grinding is something that is awesome. I'm hoping more people join in, and that you give the RPG another shot.
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Post by SanAndreasX Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:49 pm

Final Fantasy VI. Easy, no grinding required whatsoever (unless you want to get Gau's rages, but otherwise...), charming characters and fairly varied gameplay. It's what got me into Final Fantasy, although I had been playing RPGs like Ultima or Dragon Quest way back in the 1980s.
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Post by BretBaber Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:09 pm

I almost considered Dragon Quest VIII, because the real charm of that game to me is the level grinding.
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Post by TripOpt55 Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:12 pm

BretBaber wrote:What game did you try when you were younger and at what age?  I think you have to start them at the right age to really appreciate them, plus they have to have really good battle mechanics and upgrades to make you feel like level grinding is something that is awesome.  I'm hoping more people join in, and that you give the RPG another shot.
I was young. Probably under ten. I think it was one of the Phantasy Star games on Genesis. Maybe some other ones on Sega Channel. Or maybe Dragon Warrior on NES before that. None of them really grabbed me, but I never gave them a fair shot when I got older. It's not like I'm ever hurting for games to play and combat in a menu still seems boring as all hell to me so I just never went back to them I guess. But I haven't tried it in ages though maybe it'd be fine now. Again I will give one of these types of games a shot for the hell of it. We'll see what everyone says.
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Post by volvocrusher Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:37 pm

Mass Effect 2. Think him playing ME1 would be important but am pretty sure that he'd like ME2 and 3. But if we're talking turn based I'd say Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga or Bowsers Inside Story. I think he'd like the timing based combat in both as well as love the sense of humor and what they add to the Mushroom Kingdom. Also think Trip would love Fawful.

Maybe Pokemon also just because I loved it when I hated turn based combat and have a lot of friends who felt the same. Think he'd dig the character designs and the game has a cool way of always making you want to get one more level.
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Post by lenny.b Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:27 pm

Most definitely FFVII: Crisis Core. It doesn't 'play' like an RPG, but it's based off of one. Does that count? Smile Or maybe FFXV will be more up his ally.
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Post by BretBaber Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:32 pm

No, I could see him liking some of the things from Crisis Core. After I voted, I thought that he might enjoy a game like Kingdom Hearts. Not really sure if he likes Disney movies, because that would appeal to him even more.

10 for me would have been too early to enjoy RPGs. I first started when I was 14, and it was Final Fantasy VII. I think I played that game at the perfect age. I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much if I would have been 18 or 26. 14 was perfect. I agree with the pick of Mario RPG style games. I've only ever played the one for Super Nintendo, but I could see you enjoying those style of RPG games.
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Post by volvocrusher Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:32 pm

The Mario and Luigi ones I think would be the best pick out of Mario RPGs because of their approach to combat. Less menus, more timing your button presses right.
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Post by Miraculous Kaydybug Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:49 pm

I think the Raidou Kuzunoha games would be good choices actually. Progressing in the story involves solving puzzles using your demon's powers and doing a bit of detective work. They are SMT games, but the combat is action based and fairly easy to understand. You direct your demons to hit enemies weaknesses/heal while you hack at them with your sword, and like Persona combat isn't THAT big of a part of the game. You're more wondering around figuring out what to do next than fighting. It makes some cool use of your demons powers too, and doesnt hold your hand in it. The best clues you'll get are by paying to take the train all the way out to the shrine and getting a vague clue from the maiden there (or whatever she is)

I havent really played the first one though (its not as good, and you dont need to play it to get the 2nd), but i think he'd like the focus on puzzles and detective work in the second. They are more riddles than puzzles i guess though.
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Post by SanAndreasX Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:36 pm

BretBaber wrote:No, I could see him liking some of the things from Crisis Core.  After I voted, I thought that he might enjoy a game like Kingdom Hearts.  Not really sure if he likes Disney movies, because that would appeal to him even more.

10 for me would have been too early to enjoy RPGs.  I first started when I was 14, and it was Final Fantasy VII.  I think I played that game at the perfect age.  I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much if I would have been 18 or 26.  14 was perfect.  I agree with the pick of Mario RPG style games.  I've only ever played the one for Super Nintendo, but I could see you enjoying those style of RPG games.  
RPGs are an acquired taste for most folks, I think. I started with RPGs when I was 10, and I really liked them myself. I guess I might have been something of an anomaly, but my friends of the same age liked them, too. I was 16 when I got Final Fantasy VI, and 20 when I got Final Fantasy VII.
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Post by BretBaber Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:35 pm

I think I would have liked Final Fantasy VII at 20 if I would have played other games like that before hand. If I would have played it at 20, playing no other games like that before, I would have been like "What's this? Why can't I just shoot something when I want?" When I played Final Fantasy VII, my favorite types of games were fighting, sports, and racing. Now besides FIFA, I don't play sports games and the only fighting game I play is Tekken, which is rare. That game changed gaming for me, but I don't think it would have at 10 or 20. It was a magical age to be playing a game like that. I used to be a big reader growing up, then I realized games could have stories and so I stopped reading and just played games all of the time.
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Post by volvocrusher Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:51 pm

I was actually 14 also when I really got into RPGs. Only difference was it was a WRPG with Kotor that got me into the genre. I thought menus were unengaging as hell before then. Pokemon was the exception because I was in it to play my friends and coming up with new strategies to beat them was a way for it to be engaging, the other RPGs I played felt too limiting, you were stuck with fixed characters learning fixed moves. Pokemon let me choose who I wanted and there was always something to look forward to so I would keep playing: A new move, evolution, badge.

But then Kotor made me want to try more games about selecting commands. A huge reason is that it made fighting look exciting to watch. It may look clunky now, but back then people were dodging blaster shots, pulling off fancy sword attacks, and deaths had that grunt that made it really satisfying. That it was enjoying to watch made me put up with it until I realized how much I was loving coming up with strategies like planting mines under stealth then revealing myself and watching everyone get blown by them as they charge at me.

Not to mention Star Wars was a much more interesting world than fantasy for me. That helped a lot I think, especially since no one fleshed out the world half as well as Bioware, not even the movies.
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Post by TripOpt55 Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:15 am

I'm enjoying reading this thread... haha. The amount of hours needed may scare me off some of these today. I just don't have as much time to game as I used to. Are any of these at least in the 20 hour-ish range? Or are we talking like 80 hours or something?
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Post by BretBaber Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:21 am

Final Fantasy IX is shorter than most Final Fantasy games, it can be beat around 30 hours. I can't really speak for other people's picks, because i haven't really played any of them. Super long length is the reason why I typically stray away from Western ones, because they can be pretty long and offer so much variety. I like my role playing game with a little bit of linearity.

Volvo, I can understand sitting on screens waiting to attack can be boring, so I get you there. FF7 seemed to have the fastest paced ATB screen, where boss fights were rather frantic trying to pick your commands. Now I just level grind so much where it isn't even much of a problem.

One time I borrowed my nephews gameboy color and pokemon game and loved what I was playing. Good thing he wanted it back or else I'd probably be out hundreds of dollars playing those.
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Post by BretBaber Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:22 am

Someone mentioned Final Fantasy VI, and I think that can be beat around 30 hours as well.
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Post by volvocrusher Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:36 am

Mario and Luigi are closer to that range Trip. If you can find a used copy of Superstar Saga you can probably beat that in 20. Pokemon's a bit longer around 30-40ish but it's a good multitasking game. If you ever want to watch reruns of something you can get some good Pokemon hours in as well. That's what I do...and I play it when I eat, post here, and at red lights. Why stare at one when I can capture a Magikarp or Raticate waiting?
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Post by SanAndreasX Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:36 am

BretBaber wrote:Someone mentioned Final Fantasy VI, and I think that can be beat around 30 hours as well.  
I'd say 25-30 hours, and the game does a good job of keeping things moving along, so it's a packed 25-30 hours.

On FFVII, a lot of your observations about it mirror my own, Bret. FFVII was very fast-paced, and I loved how varied the gameplay was. FFVII probably made RPGs my favorite genre, too. I bought so many RPGs on PS1 it wasn't funny.

I think they always were my favorite genre, but I didn't get back into console gaming until 1994, when I got a SNES, and the mid-90s were a sucky time for RPGs on PCs. EA had pretty much killed the Ultima series with its mishandling of Ultima VIII, and PC game companies were hopping on either the FMV puzzle-game bandwagon or the FPS bandwagon and weren't making many RPGs at the time. I used to drool over the ads for Lunar: The Silver Star, but my parents weren't about to spend the $350 I would have needed to play it, and FFVI was great. FFVII, though, was truly something special, and I'd buy game after game on PS1 to recapture that feeling. I didn't, of course, but plenty of other PS1 RPGs were awesome in their own right, and I still love them. Heck, I even got to play the Lunar games I never got to play on the Sega CD thanks to the PS1. Smile
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Post by BretBaber Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:12 am

Final Fantasy VII just had something so magical. I have no idea what it was, but everything worked for me. That story was complimented perfectly with the music, and the combat was just so great. If that game had a better translation, it easily would be my recommendation for Trip over Final Fantasy IX.

When it comes to pop culture and things like video games, music, and movies, Final Fantasy VII is easily in the top 10.

I've never played the game Trip tried when he was 10, what is that game like? I'm sure some people on here have played it.

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Post by volvocrusher Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:45 am

BretBaber wrote:Final Fantasy IX is shorter than most Final Fantasy games, it can be beat around 30 hours.  I can't really speak for other people's picks, because i haven't really played any of them.  Super long length is the reason why I typically stray away from Western ones, because they can be pretty long and offer so much variety.  I like my role playing game with a little bit of linearity.  
It's funny you say that because a shorter length is the reason I usually gravitate towards WRPGs. Most Bioware RPGs (aka my favorite ones) are around the 30 hour range which is perfect for an RPG for me. Kotor, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect 2 and 3 all range there, 40 for the last two with the DLC. Then I look at a Dragon Quest or most Final Fantasy and even if I enjoy it it's usually too long. Bethesda RPGs are the only ones really like that, but they're the kind of game where I can jump in after long stretches of time and not miss a beat, can't say the same about JRPGs with how story focused they are.

The openness of WRPGs. It's really cool when they let you tackle missions in the order you want and there's changes if you do it in a different way. Like how ME3 makes some missions unavailable if you wait too long or killing a guy in Kotor has someone give you money later as a reward. You know if we want to do that debate thing wouldn't mind starting JRPG vs WRPG. I'd go for the latter of course, think I could have an interesting discussion if San Andreas especially goes on the other side.

As for Phantasy Star (assuming that's what Trip played) 4 is awesome but I didn't like the rest. Had a cool mix of sci-fi and fantasy with a great story and basic, but fun combat. 1 and 2 were too restrictive with who you can attack (hate that in any RPG) while 3 was kind of boring. There's countless of Genesis collections out there though, think one of them has all of them for PSP and works on Vita if you want a good RPG for it.
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Post by BretBaber Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:56 am

I was assuming most WRPG were like Oblivion. The only two I've played were Oblivion and Dragon's Age. I thought Dragon Age was going to be the same super long game. I wanted to love Dragon Age, but I literally had no idea what was going on with the combat. I never knew when I was dealing damage, and what I was doing to deal damage. I own the game, and if it didn't take up 8 GB's of the hard drive I'd put it back in and try to play it. Oblivion is another game I wanted to love. I love the fantasy elements of WRPG (something I wish Final Fantasy games would return to), but I always get lost in their level system and combat.

Shit, I just thought of a great game for Trip to try out: Champions of Norrath. Oh baby, that game was great! Why they haven't made a sequel for the PS3/360 is beyond me.
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Post by volvocrusher Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:49 pm

Well Dragon Age probably is Bioware's longest game, I'd put it more in the 40-50 hour range, even more with DLC. And combat was kind of a mess in the console version, but it's easier to tell if you're doing damage later on, especially if you pick Mage. The interface is just so much better on PC though. 2 felt better in that regard, but...meh. Hopefully 3 can offer the best of both worlds on a console.
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Post by avidacridjam Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:21 pm

volvocrusher wrote:
As for Phantasy Star (assuming that's what Trip played) 4 is awesome but I didn't like the rest. Had a cool mix of sci-fi and fantasy with a great story and basic, but fun combat. 1 and 2 were too restrictive with who you can attack (hate that in any RPG) while 3 was kind of boring. There's countless of Genesis collections out there though, think one of them has all of them for PSP and works on Vita if you want a good RPG for it.
I love PS4 and I agree that it's the best of the series. Oddly enough, Phantasy Star II is what got me into RPGs and I didn't play that until 2007. There was a Retronauts episode that focused on this series and the enthusiasm by some guests (Shane Bettenhausen & Christian Nutt) was strong enough to get me to play it. The problem with PSII is that its mechanics are dated and it makes you grind 90% of your time (while making small progress with both XP and money), making it a longer game to finish than necessary. You'd also need a guide since the game does a poor job of telling you, for example, how items affect your character (oh, the prices are included, yes).

The PSP Genesis collection has II, III & IV but not the first one and last time I checked the store, it isn't available for the Vita. The Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection (for 360 & PS3) has all 4 games.
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Post by TripOpt55 Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:43 pm

And to be clear, I wasn't trying to infer Phantasy Star (it was IV I think) or Dragon Warrior are bad. I know I own them, so I suspect they were the ones I tried. I suppose they were more my brother's he enjoys some rpgs, but again they just didn't do a lot for me at the time.
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Post by BretBaber Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:53 pm

Which Dragon Quest game? I'm assuming it is a real old one, since they now go by Dragon Quest.
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If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be? Empty Re: If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be?

Post by SanAndreasX Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:01 pm

As far as WRPGs go, I kind of fell out of those after Ultima VIII crashed and burned.  However, I did love Fallout 3 and New Vegas a lot, the former for the post-nuclear devastation ambiance and the latter for its much richer gameplay, although New Vegas fits more within the world established in the first two games. The reason I like those games is because I like the post-apocalyptic theming. Those two games are right behind Valkyria Chronicles, Ni no Kuni, and Tales of Xillia among my favorite games of the console generation. I did try Dragon Age: Origins. It was okay, but I really prefer Japanese-style steampunk fantasy settings over the straightforward Tolkien stuff in Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls. Same thing with The Witcher series, I'm a lot more interested in CD Projekt's upcoming Cyberpunk 2077.  If I ever try Mass Effect, I'll get the trilogy and try playing all three games in order with one save file.

I love the Dragon Quest series, but I do appreciate that it lacks a lot of the graphical bells and whistles, even back in its time, that people were accustomed to, with the exception of the gorgeous Dragon Quest VIII. Final Fantasy is a much easier series for people dabbling in RPGs to get into, but Final Fantasy didn't come to the US until near the end of the NES's lifespan, so until then, your choices in 8-bit RPGs were Dragon Quest, Phantasy Star, and Ultima.
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If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be? Empty Re: If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be?

Post by volvocrusher Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:12 pm

Yeah I get that Trip. BTW this thread got me to replay Superstar Saga and think it is the perfect answer to this question. Most enemies are taken right from a Mario game, like the dinosaurs from World are used and jumping on them makes them shorter, which is needed to jump over them when they attacks, so it uses the same logic as a Mario game which would help. Because defensively is based on timing your platforming right while offensively is based on getting the button prompts right, but the special moves are complex enough to stay fun and need practice.

Not to mention nearly every puzzles is based around Mario and Luigi hurting each other like hitting each other with a hammer or using fireballs. There's also a lot of platforming to traverse around there. The reason I say SS over the others is Partners in Time is not quite up to par with the others while Bowser's Inside Story has a very slow start while in this one you're roaming around in half an hour.
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If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be? Empty Re: If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be?

Post by BretBaber Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:22 pm

Does it have other traditional rpg elements like leveling up, hit points, magic points, equipment?
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If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be? Empty Re: If you were to introduce Trip an RPG game to play, what would it be?

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